Phil Vassallo subscriber |
Posted: May 22, 2010
Christoph, here's the answer to your question, using the 100% = world record system: 100 METERS Decathlete 1: 10.50 (904) Decathlete 2: 10.99 (853) - 51 points behind LONG JUMP Decathlete 1: 7.35 (821), 1,725 points Decathlete 2: 7.80 (872), 1,725 points - tie SHOT PUT Decathlete 1: 15.33 (663), 2,388 points Deacthlete 2: 14.17 (613), 2,338 points - 50 points behind HIGH JUMP Decathlete 1: 1.96 (800), 3,188 points Decathlete 2: 2.08 (850), 3,188 points - tie Again, how cool is it that we know both decathletes are performing at a cumulative level of 79.7% of the world records? |
Jessica Bullenkamp user |
Posted: May 22, 2010
I am actually a little tired about discussing the decathlon scoring method. I'm sticking to my opinion that maybe the current system is not absolutely fair, but neither are any systems proposed by other people. Introducing a new system would need a lot of changes and will also start new discussions (like introducing the new false start rule for the sprinters) just 2 remarks to Phil's system: You say one big advantage is that the scores are much more obvious as it's simply percentages of the world records. But it does not solve the main problem of the spectators not knowing exactly who is leading , which could only be achieved by introducing the Gundersen method for the 1.500m (which I would not do as well as I have mentioned in another topic). We just have to stick to it: decathlon is a very complex event, not just for the athletes but also for spectators. It always involves calculations and it does not get much better, if the formulas are a little less complex. Also I still do not like the idea of always comparing scores to the current record. I haven't checked but I suppose that results in the single events have increased much more in the past 50 years than the decathletes' results. So it will get harder and harder for decathletes to beat the world record as the requirements are always getting higher. Have you ever done the math what an athlete today would have to show to get more than 8171 points in your system? |
scott user |
Posted: May 22, 2010
JESSICA, PHIL already did the math. all a decathlete has to do is beat JENNERs marks by a percentage most of the time. |
parkerclay subscriber |
Posted: May 22, 2010
Phil, Is the 8171 score for Jenner's 76 performance? I was thinking the score for career bests was someone different. Can you list the top ones out? Btw, have you updated Sebrle's career bests - I think he's improved a couple of performances since '01 |
Gabbar user |
Posted: June 20, 2010
Here's a discussion about the Arkansas high school decathlon where a kid won by scoring nearly 1500 points, about 1/5 of his total, in the pole vault: I was there, and his performance in the Pole Vault was impressive. With the way the points are set up, the points he won in the PV was what made the difference in him winning. In my opinion, the AAA needs to address the standards in how the points are given out in both the decathlon and the heptathlon. The rewards for exceeding the standards in a running event are far less than if you exceed in a Field Event. For Example, this year the winner vaulted 16'3, which gave him 15 points for every inch he beat the standard of 13'6. This gave him a total of 450 extra points. Here are examples of what it would take in other events in order to earn the same amount of points. In order for someone to run the mile and beat the standard (4:40) to achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to run a 3:55.00 mile. The World Record is 3:43 and the Arkansas State High School Record is 4:10.45. In order for someone to run the 100 and beat the standard (11.0) and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to run a time of 9.50 in order to get that many points. Usain Bolt currently has the record at 9.58, and the Arkansas State High School record is 10.52. In order for someone to run the 400 and beat the standard (50.5) and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to run a time of 41.5 in order to get that many points. Michael Johnson has the World Record at 43.18, and the Arkansas State High School record is 47.54. In order for someone to run the 110 Hurdles and beat the standard (14.5) and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to run a time of 10.00 in order to get that many points. The World Record at 12.87, and the Arkansas State High School record is 13.64. Here is what the a person would have to do in the other Field Events to get that many points. In order for someone to throw the discuss and beat the standard (150') and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would only have to throw 195' in order to get that many points. The World Record is 243, but the Arkansas High School Record is 189' 9. In order for someone to throw the Shot Put and beat the standard (52"') and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would only have to throw 62" 6 in order to get that many points. The World Record is 75" 10, and the Arkansas High School Record is 69' 9. In order for someone to Long Jump and beat the standard (21" 6) and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to jump 25" 0 in order to get that many points. The World Record is 29" 5, and the Arkansas High School Record is 25' 6. In order for someone to High Jump and beat the standard (6" 4) and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to jump almost 7" 5 in order to get that many points. The World Record is 8" 0, and the Arkansas High School Record is 7' 5. In order for someone to Triple Jump and beat the standard (44" ) and achieve the same amount of extra points, he would have to jump a little over 53" in order to get that many points. The World Record is 60" 0, and the Arkansas High School Record is not listed. So if you look at it, the runners have a serious disadvantage to the jumpers in the High School De cathalon. Regardless, here is what I think each events standards should be. 100 Currently get 1000 points for running a 11.0 - I would change it to 1000 for running a 11.5 and then 3 points less/more for every tenth of a second over/under that time. 400 Currently get 1000 points for running a 50.5 - I would change it to 1000 for running a 52.00 and then 1 points less/more for every 2 tenths of a second over/under that time. 110 Hurdles Currently get 1000 points for running a 14.5 - I would change it to 1000 for running a 15.50 and then 1 points less/more for every tenth of a second over/under that time. 1600 Currently get 1000 points for running a 4:40.00 - I would change it to 1000 for running a 5:00.00 and then ten points less/more for second over/under that time. Discuss Currently get 1000 points for throwing 150" - I would change it to 1000 for throwing 135" and then ten points less/more for every inch under/over that distance. Shot Currently get 1000 points for throwing 52" - I would change it to 1000 for throwing 45" and then three points less/more for every inch under/over that distance. Long Jump Currently get 1000 points for jumping 21" 6 - I would change it to 1000 for jumping 20" 0 and then ten points less/more for every inch under/over that distance. High Jump Currently get 1000 points for jumping 6" 4 - I would change it to 1000 for jumping 6" 0 and 30 points less/more for every inch under/over that distance. Triple Jump Currently get 1000 points for jumping 44" - I would change it to 1000 for jumping 40" and 4 points less/more for every tenth of a inch under/over that distance. Pole Vault Currently get 1000 points for Vaulting 13" 6 - I would change it to 1000 for Vaulting 15" and 5 points less/more for every tenth of a inch under/over that distance. |
B.J. Parish user |
Posted: June 20, 2010
heylet me tell you something about the arkansas high school decathlon scoring tables. They are the dumbest set of tables that anyone has ever come up with. in 2003 wallace spearmon finished 3rd because of his lack of pole vault and 1600 meter abilities. i was competing in that meet as well and i was in the running until the 1600 started and scored 0 points beacsue there scoring system is broken. good luck on getting them to change it they let some guy come up with a points system that i am pretty sure fit his althetes abilities. marc bradley a wide reciever for oklahoma a few years back has the stae record of over 8000 points not sure exactly what it is but he no marked in 2 events! |
parkerclay subscriber |
Posted: June 21, 2010
cool - Do you have Spearmon's marks? |
B.J. Parish user |
Posted: June 21, 2010
this was wallaces senior year and dont forget 1 year later he ran under 20 seconds and won the ncaa 200 11.39 21'6" 38'8" 6'4" 51.16 15.94 111'2" 8'6" 45'7" this event is triple jump no jav in arkansas decathlon 6:19.24 (1600) i can give you the points if you like |
parkerclay subscriber |
Posted: June 21, 2010
Thanks - I'm gonna start a new post about spearmon, etc. |
scott user |
Posted: June 23, 2010
it would appear that we are going to see just how many ways there are to bend the system instead of just using the percentage system that has been advocated elsewhere in this post. |